r/todayilearned 5h ago

TIL during a 2015 study two students nearly died after they were accidentally given 30g of caffeine instead of 0.3g because the dosage had been calculated with a misplaced decimal point. Death has previously been reported after the consumption of just 18g. The university apologized & was fined £400K

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/25/students-caffeine-newcastle-crown-court-northumbria
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u/racinjason44 4h ago

I mean a cup of coffee has 80 mg of caffeine in it. So .080 grams... Just hit me with 400 cups of coffee today, boss.

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u/AvatarIII 3h ago

What I don't get is that 30g is a lot of powder, it didn't occur to anyone that 2 tablespoons of powder is not equivalent to about 5 cups of coffee.

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u/racinjason44 3h ago

Yeah, that's not an insignificant amount of powder to put in something. I don't understand how someone physically did this without sounding any alarm bells.

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u/tarrasque 2h ago

I think this is why they got a hefty fine. Because it’s a monumental fuckup that should have been caught many times over.

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u/whistleridge 3h ago

Also caffeine is BITTER. It’s what’s used to make pills taste bad so kids won’t eat them.

You’d need SO much sugar to offset that, unless there’s a flavorless version I don’t know about?

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u/Gastronomicus 1h ago

It’s what’s used to make pills taste bad so kids won’t eat them.

That is simply not true. Alkaloids in general are very bitter compounds, and many drugs/medications/foods contain alkaloids of some kind (caffeine, morphine, atropine, dopamine, reserpine, nicotine, cocaine etc). If it comes as a hydrochloride salt of some kind it's probably an alkaloid. And plenty of non-alkaloid drugs are also quite bitter on their own.

Furthermore, there are plenty of bitterants that are far more effective and not psychoactive like caffeine, which in general would not be suitable to give to children.

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u/The_Real_Jedi 3h ago

Caffeine is bitter. It's the standard for when testing food products for their bitterness.

However, I don't think what you're saying is true. Most medicine itself is really bitter. No need to make it more.

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u/whistleridge 3h ago

My understanding is that it’s not all medicine, just some common OTC medicines. lol god knows some stuff tastes nasty af all on its own.

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u/Theron3206 2h ago

The only OTC stuff I have seen with caffeine in it is paracetamol, and that's already bitter as anything. It's added there because it improves the analgesic effect of the paracetamol.

If it was in there it would need to be on the label.

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u/an_agreeing_dothraki 1h ago

Excedrin, because fuck this headache

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u/GozerDGozerian 3h ago

They use caffeine on pills for that?

u/proudly_not_american 56m ago

No, they don't. The active ingredients are bitter as is.

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u/xambreh 1h ago

That's just plain wrong. While caffeine is bitter it's not nearly bitter enough to dissuade consumption of anything. By the time the bitter taste becomes unpleasant you'd have already consumed dangerous amounts of caffeine. Its only used in over the counter drugs for synergistic effects for pain relief and decongestant medicine. You might be thinking of denatonium.

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u/Agitated-Ad2563 2h ago

Maybe they used an IV infusion? Dissolved in 400 ml NaCl solution, it looks and tastes the same regardless of the dose.

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u/PracticalThrowawae 4h ago

I think everybody who's responsible for a study should watch Office Space to show how important a decimal is before doing any kind of calculations that affect people

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u/Cold-Government6545 4h ago

PC LOADELETTER

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u/Zwangsjacke 4h ago

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN?

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u/G00DLuck 3h ago

God damn it feels good to be a gangster

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u/UrdnotZigrin 2h ago

I'm sorry but it it appears you have taken my red Swingline stapler

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u/Additional-Local8721 3h ago

What if you didn't have a good job, Michael?

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u/BurtTurglar 2h ago

YEAH! DO THAT! DO EXACTLY THAT!

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u/Available-Throwaway6 3h ago

Why should I change? He’s the one that sucks…

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u/Laurels_Night 3h ago

WHY DOES IT SAY PAPER JAM WHEN THERE IS NO PAPER JAM?!?!

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u/ComradeGibbon 2h ago

You just triggered everyone on reddit over 40.

Good job man.

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u/tonysopranosalive 4h ago

OH!!! WELL THIS IS NOT A MUNDANE DETAIL… MICHAEL!!!

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u/Interesting_Bank_139 3h ago

“We’re going to federal POUND ME IN THE ASS Prison.”

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u/DigNitty 4h ago

Or the movie it’s based on, Superman 3

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u/stickkyfingers 4h ago

“Why would you say you brew here?”

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u/Many-Wasabi9141 2h ago

Given the events of that movie... It's not the best lesson on the importance of decimal points cause it ends up not being a big deal at all.

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u/CrimsonKing516 2h ago

…Burn this building to the ground…

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u/ExpressoLiberry 4h ago

Ugh I always mess up these Monday details

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u/swordrat720 3h ago

Sounds like someone’s got a case of the Monday’s!

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u/qiwi 3h ago

This is standard Italian coffee order, espresso quattrocento.

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u/fivehourworkweek 3h ago

italian is haunting me all day today. i think it can sense i haven't been studying for my retake exam

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u/TacTurtle 2h ago

Che fesso!

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u/Humblebee89 4h ago

I would shit my spine and nervous system out of my ass like a bazooka.

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u/popsicle_of_meat 3h ago

That's a terrible pick-up line.

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u/GozerDGozerian 3h ago

Maybe, maybe not.

Remember steps 1 and 2…

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u/Logical-Hotel4199 4h ago

400 espressos* I am small, I cannot consume this much liquid

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u/lminer123 4h ago

Would you prefer 100 Bang Energy drinks?

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u/SurealGod 4h ago

I somehow misread it as milligrams and not grams and was hyper confused why just shy of a cup coffees worth of caffeine is deadly.

Reread and realized the mistake and how much caffeine that actually is, jesus

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u/kingethjames 4h ago

Somebody put this man in charge of a study

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u/ianitic 4h ago

That's not entirely true. A cup of coffee can have anywhere between 50mg-200mg and that's before talking about the kinds with extremely high caffeine content which can go way above that. Most brewed coffees at 8floz will have more than 80mg though, especially at the popular coffee shops.

Look up the caffeine content for Starbucks pike place.

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u/Beautiful_Welcome_33 3h ago

Simpsons (Futurama) did it

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u/Z3t4 1h ago

Fry survived 300 cups

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u/invaluablekiwi 4h ago

Old healthcare joke:

A med student is disappointed to find they've received a failing grade after using the wrong formula to work out dosages. She asks for partial credit, because "All the answers were consistent with the formula I used."

"Yes", replies the instructor, "And all your patients would be consistently dead".

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u/Nessie_of_the_Loch 4h ago

I know of a nurse who almost killed someone when she confused UNITS of insulin with mL of insulin.

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u/Successful-Mine-5967 3h ago

I knew one who made a similar mistake in dialysis, she gave .8 mg of something instead of .08 and killed a newborn

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u/ScoutTheRabbit 3h ago

Jesus. Were the parents informed it was the result of a fuckup?

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u/Successful-Mine-5967 3h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah of course the entire incident was reported, I know the nurse lost her job obviously but I don’t know what happened with all the legal stuff, this was a while ago in the 90s

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u/the_peppers 3h ago

I absolutely would not survive in a job where a fuckup like that has those kind of consequences.

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u/Successful-Mine-5967 3h ago

Same, I just know I’d end up accidentally killing someone. This is why I respect the hell out of healthcare employees

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u/Mertoot 1h ago

Yeah I could never, that's too much responsibility, especially as a regular job where you may eventually zone out

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u/ntcaudio 2h ago

That's why firing the nurse and waiting for the next one to fuck up isn't a viable solution. But adjustment of current procedures to make it near impossible to happen needs to be done.

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u/the_peppers 2h ago

I hear you. Caffeine resistant babies.

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u/Melodic-Network4374 1h ago

In IT, when someone messes up and breaks the system, people not in IT sometimes ask if they were fired. The standard answer is no, the company just paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for his education, why would we fire him?

In this case someone literally died to teach the nurse a lesson. She's not ever going to make that mistake again. Seems like a bad move to fire her (assuming it wasn't part of a pattern of negligence, of course).

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u/Lemerney2 1h ago

From a PR perspective, there's no way they could keep her on without destroying the hospital's reputation.

It's probably better to see it as teaching the system a lesson, to not let that mistake be possible again.

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u/Competitive_Salt9167 1h ago

While working overnight on 12 hour shifts too. Just begging for mistakes like this to happen. Overworked, underpaid, owner of the blame.

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u/FryToastFrill 1h ago

Yes, which is why people in healthcare have short shifts and are paid very well

/s

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u/MattieShoes 2h ago

Human nature being what it is, I wonder how many incidents go unreported. I mean, probably hard to avoid if somebody dies, but I bet there's lots of unreported less-significant fuckups.

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u/EthanielRain 3h ago

That would haunt you forever. Just terrible alll around

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u/TheSharpestHammer 3h ago

Always always always check your fucking math.

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u/WitAndWonder 2h ago

Common sense goes a long way here too. If something sounds like a lot, or too little, look it up again / get a second opinion. These people should be working with these measurements frequently enough to guess when something seems off.

That being said, in the medical cases people are talking about, it's well known we put doctors and nurses on the stupidest fucking shift schedules, which is going to increase error rates tremendously. So a good chunk of the blame lays at the feet of medical administration.

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u/ryeaglin 2h ago

Common sense goes a long way here too. If something sounds like a lot, or too little, look it up again / get a second opinion.

This makes me wonder if Universities required more cross knowledge if that would help. As an engineer student we were taught to think like this. Well not exactly like this, but to do what my prof would call "Tissue math" where you round a lot of shit to see if you should even bother with the good math. Which I feel is in the same vein.

As a tutor, if I fuck up and move a decimal, write a number down wrong, or drop a negative, once I notice, I directly point out "Student, I messed up my math somewhere, THIS is how I realized it. Getting it right the first time is ideal, but being able to recognize when something is wrong is nearly as good since we all make these small mistakes"

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u/Slartibartfast39 3h ago

I'm not a medical professional or a diabetic. How many ml per unit for insulin?

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u/immortalnachi 3h ago

100 units is 1mL if it's U-100

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u/andrew_1515 1h ago

So a unit is 10 uL, weird that they wouldnt just use the SI prefix

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u/PancakesAlways 3h ago

100U/ml is the most common for fast-acting. My insulin pump holds 3ml of Humalog, or 300 units of insulin. There are other concentrations though.

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u/Rohkey 3h ago

Makes me feel better about the time I made a pot roast in college and thought a “clove of garlic” was the whole bulb. Put two of those bad boys in there..took forever to mince. Was still delicious, maybe says something about my taste buds.

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u/Eliaish 3h ago

Well it’s garlic. Some people say you can’t have too much garlic lol.

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u/serious_sarcasm 1h ago

That’s just standard conversion for most recipes written by someone from the Midwest.

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u/revdon 3h ago

I had to complain about a nurse who railed against the Demon Caffeine, but couldn't get her units straight. She kept trying to convince me that a 20oz energy drink contained 500g of caffeine.

She also averred that "no one knows what is in energy drinks" even though they have nutrition info on the can.

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u/AssiduousLayabout 4h ago

How would that even work? I mean an insulin syringe won't even hold more than 1 mL or so. I'd hope anyone would realize they were using a comically large syringe for the task at hand.

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u/Nessie_of_the_Loch 3h ago

It was almost 50 years ago, she was a new nurse who had been in the ER for more than 12 hours, and the patient had a blood sugar level that was over 700 mg/dl (apparently, that was what their tool topped out at).

It's my grandmother's friend, and she told this story to every new nurse that she trained to let them know that every decision they take could decide the life of someone.

I don't know of the specific # of units or what kind of syringe was used.

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u/Suspicious_Ice_3160 3h ago

If I recall correctly, they can push insulin through the IV, at least i don’t remember getting poked in the hospital

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u/FirstPlayer 3h ago

One needs to have a frame of reference for normalcy in order to have those flags pop up, though. A 10cc syringe is extremely standard, and a brand new nurse who's never given insulin could absolutely just be like "okay, 8cc IV, got it" especially before things like Pyxis.

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u/HouseSandwich 3h ago

When my grandfather was diagnosed with prostate cancer, they recommended these seeds that would eat through the cancer and was assured that it was super easy, non issue. Except the lab order was entered with the decimal point incorrectly placed (like 6.0 instead of .06 or smtg, I was little and don’t remember exactly) but it ate through his organs and that was that. 

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u/MissTetraHyde 3h ago

If they are the same thing my grandfather took for his prostate cancer, I believe those were radioactive pellets.

Permanent (Low Dose Rate) Brachytherapy: LDR

A doctor or clinician implants radioactive (iodine-125 or palladium-103) seeds into the prostate gland using an ultrasound for guidance. The number of seeds and where they are placed is determined by a computer-generated treatment plan tailored for each patient. Anywhere from 40 to 100 seeds are commonly implanted.

The implants remain in place permanently, and become biologically inert (no longer useful) after a period of months. This technique allows a high dose of radiation to be delivered to the prostate with limited damage to surrounding tissues.

Temporary (High Dose Rate) Brachytherapy: HDR

With this technique, hollow needles or hollow catheters are placed into the prostate gland, which are then filled with radioactive material (iridium-192 or cesium 137) for 5-15 minutes. After each treatment the radioactive material is removed. This is repeated two to three times over the next several days. After the final treatment, the catheters or needles are removed.

Sorry for your loss; my grandfather is passed away now too but it was a stroke in his case. I miss him.

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u/Bishcop3267 3h ago

For anyone confused about this, insulin is typically measured in dg/mL (one unit). My insulin pens I get are 3 mL pens and hold 300 units. A typical meal runs me around 8-10 units. With the same mistake that is 800-1000 units given which would be impossible to reverse.

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u/FriendlyBelligerent 4h ago

Don't forget reckless murderer Radonda Vaught, who should be in prison

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u/AssiduousLayabout 3h ago edited 3h ago

No, we should fix processes like Pyxis cabinets that need a manual override as a routine part of day-to-day operations, or barcode med administration not being available and used.

Airline safety is one of the most enviable of any industry in the world because they don't just blame human error and throw people under the bus when a mistake happens, they look at the bigger problem, from the perspective of better training but also better automation and better safeguards to catch when someone makes a mistake. Because everyone will make a mistake, especially under heavy workload, we need systems in place to detect and correct mistakes before they cause harm or death.

It's easy to chalk a medication error like this up to one person's mistake, but the bigger problem is there wasn't a solid, functional system in place to catch mistakes.

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u/LordofShit 3h ago

Yep, the best way to make the right thing happen is to make it easy.

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u/durz47 3h ago

As a researcher it still boggles my mind how some people don’t do a sanity check on their calculations before experiments. Who in their right mind would think 30grams of caffeine is a sensible amount to give to a person?

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u/Tobipig 3h ago

My old chem teacher had pure caffeine next to the coffee machine. He would definitely think that

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u/WitchesSphincter 3h ago

In engineering (EE) I had a test where I made a mistake that ended up with a negative capacitance which violates physics. I made a note that its wrong, but can't figure out where the issue is.

Still got most credit because of the awareness.

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u/Buscemi_D_Sanji 2h ago

I did this on a physics test, ended up with a velocity for something that was faster than light speed and wrote "I know this isn't possible, but I ran out of time to recalculate :0"

Got the test back with the correction, I had forgotten a 1/10e6 factor converting from microseconds to seconds (or something like that) and he had given me full credit because the answer was the right number, just multiplied by a million haha

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u/FinderOfWays 2h ago

You had a good professor, and were a good student. I do the same with my students. Or I would, but it's happened maybe thrice in six years. Students who do that type of sanity checking are exceptional.

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u/granadesnhorseshoes 4h ago

How tf do you meter out 30g of a fine white powder and not think "gee, that seems like a lot"

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u/who_you_are 4h ago

Sugar: hold my beer

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u/TacTurtle 2h ago

dust off nose

Sorry what were we talking about?

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u/Kaurifish 2h ago

If you’re not moving with caution when dispensing powdered sugar, you’re going to end up with beignet lung.

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u/yungflibbis 4h ago

Pure caffeine is extremely bitter too! Yikes.

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u/Rjc1471 3h ago

I was thinking that, surely by the time you've half filled a mug with raw chemical you'd think something's off

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u/jeffy303 2h ago

It's about couple of tablespoons in powder form and they mixed it in orange juice which is incredibly good and masking bitter taste.

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u/Time-Maintenance2165 3h ago

30 grams isn't half a mug.

The powder from a hot chocolate weighs more than this. Or protein powder.

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u/devilwarriors 1h ago

This.. everyone in the tread wondering how that's possible.

Sure if you know about caffeine powder, you'd know that's an insane amount of it to add to a drink.

But if you're just a minimum wage worker that don't know about it, 2 table spoon of a powder added to a drink is not that abnormal.

That's why powdered caffeine is so fucking dangerous..

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u/jaysaccount1772 4h ago

Busting out a whole zip for one serving.

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u/tyrion2024 4h ago

Northumbria University has been fined £400,000 for the incident in March 2015 which caused Alex Rossetto and Luke Parkin to be rushed to hospital and put on dialysis.
On Wednesday a judge said the two sports science students probably only survived because they were fit and and active young men.
...
Newcastle Crown Court heard the calculation had been done on a mobile phone, the decimal point being put in the wrong place and there being no risk assessment for the test.
...
The university...had switched from using caffeine tablets to powder, which, he said, meant supervision was vital.
But he said: "The staff were not experienced or competent enough and they had never done it on their own before. "The university took no steps to make sure the staff knew how to do it."
...
Rossetto, who has gone on to study a Masters degree at the university, was kept in hospital for 6 days, reported short-term memory loss and lost 26.5lb (12kg) in weight.
Parkin was treated for 2 days in intensive care and lost 22lb (10kg) in weight.

A couple other noteworthy bits:

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u/interofficemail 4h ago

"doctors hate this one weight loss trick"

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u/nightfire36 2h ago

"Patients hate this one weight loss trick"

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u/guynamedjames 4h ago

Those weight loss values seem strange. Losing 20lbs in 2 days is possible if you're losing water weight, but in the ICU I guarantee they had a bag of fluids in their arm the entire time. How do you lose 2.5 gallons (10 liters) of fluids in 2 days while getting fluids intravenously?

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u/Zamzummin 4h ago

It doesn’t say they lost that weight while in the hospital. They probably lost that weight in the weeks that followed as they recovered at home from the overdose.

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u/Pinglenook 4h ago edited 4h ago

He was in the ICU for 2 days and lost 22 lbs; he didn't necessarily lose the 22 lbs while in the ICU, just in the process of recovering from the caffeine intoxication. 

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u/lordmycal 3h ago

Some people would pay good money to lose 22 lbs in 2 days! /s

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u/CertifiedSheep 4h ago

Just a guess: I know that even in smaller doses caffeine makes you jittery - maybe at extreme doses it causes long-term shivering or myoclonus. Would burn a ton of calories that way in addition to the diuretic effects of caffeine.

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u/Qwernakus 3h ago

Could cause damage that then leads to weight loss until the body corrects itself. Maybe muscle damage leading to muscle breakdown.

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u/Kasinder 3h ago

How much of that fine went to the victims?

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u/aFreshFix 3h ago

That fine went toward the victims, right? Right?

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u/zoobrix 4h ago

Not to in any way downplay how reckless the university was but the teenager who died did have a heart defect that while not that uncommon elevated her risk.

Having worked at a youth center I've seen lots of teens that drank 2 or 3 or who knows how many energy drinks, it's a problem and the risks aren't made clear enough, but never saw a severe reaction like she had. Although you shouldn't consume that much caffeine her condition probably played a part in what happened sadly.

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u/mycolortv 4h ago edited 3h ago

300mg is the upper limit of caffeine in most common energy drinks. That was the amount they were trying to dose them with.

There are 30000mg in 30g lol. It’s 100 energy drinks.

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u/PureQuestionHS 3h ago

They're talking about the one mentioned at the end of the post who died from 480mg, stated in the same line to be a result of drinking two cans of monster.

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u/Skreamie 4h ago

You're talking about a couple of hundred milligrams in the energy drinks, and 30 thousand milligrams in the experiment.

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u/PureQuestionHS 3h ago

I think they're talking about this part of the comment:

However, in 2011 a 14-year-old girl died from “caffeine toxicity” with a dose of only 480 milligrams after she drank two cans of Monster energy drink.

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u/DMmeNiceTitties 4h ago

Fuck, I wonder how that caffeine high must have hit before their heart couldn't take it anymore.

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u/NetDork 4h ago

Nausea, shortness of breath, and tremors are what I've gotten when I had too much caffeine, and I'm fairly sure I've never been within 1/10th of what they had.

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u/parnaoia 4h ago

don't forget the sensation of impending doom, like there's a killer that's out to get you and you know it.

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u/DigNitty 4h ago

For anyone who doesn’t know, a “sense of impending doom” is a real symptom of some maladies.

If you feel like you’re going to die but can’t explain why, the doc in the ER may start tests for a pulmonary embolism.

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u/parnaoia 4h ago edited 3h ago

that's exactly why my mind started racing "Ok, I'm fine, but this is clearly a symptom, what the fuck did I do to myself to cause this? Oh, 2 Monsters and a double espresso in half an hour? Yeah, that checks out. Bring on that 2L bottle of water and prepare to piss everything out."

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u/SelectionDue4287 3h ago

Also, magnesium and potassium, highly recommend.

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u/theaviationhistorian 3h ago

2 Monsters and a double espresso, fuck me! I haven't had a Monster in decades and I feel that one alone will do serious damage to me.

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u/Thepinkknitter 4h ago

If you think about it, what does anxiety typically feel like? A racing heart, maybe shortness of breath or sweating. That much caffeine is going to get your head rate MOVING. When I was in an accident and had a resting HR of 190+, it absolutely felt like impending doom. It wasn’t pleasant

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u/kingchedbootay 4h ago

Could it also not just be a panic attack? I feel like when i’ve hit a weed pen too hard theres a impending sense of doom

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u/QuietShipper 3h ago

Don't know if I'd say "just" but yeah, panic attacks are frequently accompanied by an "impending sense of doom"

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u/Crisp_Volunteer 4h ago

For anyone who doesn’t know, a “sense of impending doom” is a real symptom of some maladies.

Also happens when you're given the wrong bloodtype.

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u/nsbsalt 4h ago

My first panic attack put me in the hospital for this same reason.

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u/other-worlds- 4h ago

Worst panic attack of my life was like that. I said “I’m going to die,” fell to the ground and started screaming and convulsing. I could feel death breathing down my neck. Someone tried to grab me and I clawed their arm so hard they bled. I only calmed down halfway to the hospital.

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u/AtheenXI 4h ago

I sure do love panic attacks. Awful stuff.

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u/Correct_Cold_6793 4h ago

Yep, got it from a panic attack. Not fun.

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u/qiwi 3h ago

But first they'll ask if you by any chance had 400 cups of coffee and (if female) the date of your last period.

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u/Visual-Froyo 3h ago

Which is why health anxiety sucks omg

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u/Dioxid3 3h ago

Oh boy do I have an anecdote for you.

I have, what is best described as fucky shoulders. Basicslly loose joints, that should either A) be operated (no thanks) or B) I should rigorosuly train my rotator cuffs and shoulder muscles to help support the joints, for the rest of my life. I keep telling myself Ive been too busy lately to train and 6 months later they are in shit shape.

Anyhow, my left shoulder partially dislocates when rotated and pushed the wrong way. As there is little supporting mass right now, it doesn’t really hurt, and I know for the most part how to get it back in position.

BUT, what I endure during the state of sub-luxation is a hard-to-control panic, like I am literally going to die. I really need to focus to keep myself calm even if I damn well know I have it under control.

And once I get it back in, the longer it has been dislocated, the bigger the following ”crash” is. I think it’s adrenaline that is keeping me focused, and after all is done, I feel super nauseated, like I have the worst hangover+flu you can imagine.

Anyways, thanks for coming to my TEDtalk about fuckt shoulders

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u/lblack_dogl 4h ago

Hey, it's me after a single cup of coffee. I cannot handle the stuff.

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u/Henry5321 4h ago

My general anxiety low grade gave me this most of my life. I was very polarized to everything. Either loved it or hated it. Kind of like fight or flight.

After 40 years, I finally got this mostly under control and I’m much more chill. Sometimes too chill. Been so used to some level of impending doom and general worry that things that should bother me just don’t.

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u/NetDork 4h ago

Yeah, and having ADHD makes it weird...like I can focus on my work far better, but I still feel like something horrible is going to happen!

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u/Medium-Dependent-328 3h ago

As a reckless teenager I downed six shots of espresso in one go. I was not previously a coffee drinker. I then went home and sensibly did my homework without distractions for the first time. I just... got it done. No 30-minute-long paralysis beforehand, no constant wandering of the mind and aggressive fidgeting during it. Anyway, it turns out I have ADHD.

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u/DJ_Pikachu 4h ago

Yeah, messed with caffeine pills in college when I was 18. Being a kid I took too much. Genuinely thought I was going to die for a while - insane heartbeat, vomiting, shaking, trouble breathing. And just an insane wave of ‘I’m going to die’ thoughts, which was probably from symptoms but I know some drugs (tryptamines, corticosteroids, stimulants) do have a sort of ‘feelings of dread’ effect past a certain dose.

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u/Kmart_Elvis 4h ago

Were you so excited? Were you so.....scared?

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u/Naraee 4h ago edited 4h ago

I got this after drinking one of the infamous Charged Lemonades from Panera when they first came out. They did not have the caffeine content listed anywhere and the drive-thru sign said it had as much caffeine as a cup of their black coffee.

It had nearly 400mg for the large lemonade.

It is not fun, but it also makes you feel like the The Flash or Quicksilver as shown in the movies and TV series. The world feels like it is moving really slow around you but you're moving fast.

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u/hells_cowbells 4h ago

That stuff also killed somebody because they offered unlimited refills if you were in store, and somebody got a bunch of refills.

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u/vogon123 4h ago

30,000 mg must have felt insanely awful very very quickly. A typical Red Bull is 160 mg. A typical espresso shot is around 60-75 mg. They had the equivalent of 400 shots of strong espresso. Poor kids

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u/DMmeNiceTitties 4h ago

Fuck, thanks for breaking it down like that. Makes it easier to compare, the most espresso shots I've had in a day was probably 4-5, 375mg max according to your numbers.

30,000mg would have totally fucked me up.

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u/KarmaViking 3h ago

I’ve had 4 shots worth of espresso in a 1 hour period once and I had a panic attack, it was that fucking awful. I can’t imagine what 100x that amount would do.

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u/JnnyRuthless 4h ago

When I worked in cafes, we would get bored and start hitting espresso shots during slow times. One of my coworkers regularly drank between 12-15 shots of espresso a day. Wild stuff.

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u/Thrwwccnt 2h ago

A typical Red Bull is 160 mg

I wish...

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u/dethskwirl 4h ago

time slows down and you're able to save your friends from a museum fire

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u/ThePrussianGrippe 4h ago

Only if you first receive the required 300 Nixon-Fun-Bucks.

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u/RahvinDragand 3h ago

It's hilarious that X-Men: Apocalypse totally ripped off that Futurama scene.

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u/bolivar-shagnasty 4h ago

Not only does it kill you, but it hurts the whole time you're dying.

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u/DMmeNiceTitties 4h ago

That... does not sound pleasant at all as I drink my coffee reading this.

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u/Ullallulloo 4h ago

Chubby Emu did a video on a guy who did almost exactly this same thing himself: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sylqJ0NEVJw

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u/DMmeNiceTitties 4h ago edited 4h ago

Fuck it, I'm on break, I can listen to a 15 minute video, brb.

Edit; I now have a fear of accidentally ingesting protein powder and not realizing until it's too late that it's caffeine powder. At least the video has a happy ending, dude lived.

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u/Qwernakus 3h ago

35000mg of caffeine. Let's assume for fun that around half of this gets diluted into the blood, which is around 5 liters. A lot of it probably makes it into other tissues in real life, but let's proceed. That makes for 3500mg/l, or 350mg/100ml.

A normal energy drink is around 32mg/100ml. So the blood of this guy was, if my assumptions are even remotely correct, caffeinated enough to count as an energy drink by itself.

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u/RealPudgeJudy 3h ago

Horrible. Anyone who has overdone caffeine knows exactly how awful it feels. Nausea, dehydration, hyper-irritability, confusion, and all from amounts at 1-2% the dose these students were given. 

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u/Orion1618 3h ago

In high school I Ingested 1.5g of caffeine in a single dose. 5x extra strength 5 hour energy shots, and one of the big twist top monsters, for reference.

I was bouncing off the walls for 2 class periods, then was curled in the fetal position for my after-school threatre class. I could feel my heartbeat in every part of my body, I had absolutely no energy cook the crash and it felt like death was on my doorstep.

I don't drink much caffeine anymore, it affects me in weird ways. Tea is fine, but coffee, soda, and (good) chocolate are all items of limited consumption these days.

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u/TabbbyWright 4h ago

I accidentally overdosed on caffeine as a teenager (though not to a life threatening degree) and man I wish there had been a high. I just went from fine to having the worst headache/nausea of my life and having no memory of the 5 minutes between me being in a store and outside of it. It was bizarre.

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u/DarthWoo 4h ago

There was a personal trainer a few years back who ODed on caffeine when he tried to measure out the recommended dose for his drink at something like 300mg, but because his scale started at 2g he somehow ended up using 5g.

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u/bootymix96 4h ago

Pretty sure they banned the sale of powdered caffeine in the US because of this case IIRC

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u/DarthWoo 4h ago

This particular one was in the UK, but bulk powder sales were apparently banned in the US even before that.

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u/-asmodeus 3h ago

I bought a package of caffeine from myprotein years ago - the dosage spoon was like a barbie doll spoon - i would add a scoop to monster in the morning and that would be me all set

I ended up throwing it out cos the thought of my kids getting into it was too much

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u/bootymix96 4h ago

Ah, gotcha. In any case, I definitely remember it being banned in the US in reaction to a story very similar to this one

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u/Zraax 3h ago edited 3h ago

Yeah, kinda. It looks like it is not allowed in any product that is for consumption, like supplements or protein powder etc. But there's plenty of bulk caffeine for sale online, claiming to be for "skin and hair care" and for "external use only".

https://www.durbin.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/fda-answers-durbin-brown-blumenthal-call-to-ban-deadly-powdered-caffeine

edit: it was an 18-year-old guy in Ohio named Logan Stiner who died in 2014 from caffeine overdose, and this FDA action happened in 2015

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u/bootymix96 3h ago

Gotcha, thanks for the info! It was the 2014 case I was thinking of.

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u/twec21 4h ago

the university apologized

"-and we mean this sincerely....our bad"

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u/SirHerald 4h ago

A typical caffeinated beverage gives you about 50 mg. I keep 100 mg tablets around as a replacement for any caffeinated drinks. I'll typically take one a day. If it's crazy maybe two. 300 mg is a lot of caffeine.

30,000 mg is insane. That is 600 12 oz cans of a typical caffeinated beverage. 300 typical cups of coffee.

Of course, if you tried to drink that amount of coffee at once the caffeine would be the least of your concerns

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u/lord_ne 4h ago

The FDA recommends no more than 400 mg of caffeine per day for an adult. (Not coincidentally, a large Panera Charged Lemonade, before those were pulled, had 390 mg of caffeine). 30,000 mg is unimaginable

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u/EnvironmentalCook520 4h ago

Hmm maybe I should rethink drinking death coffee. It's got 600mg a cup. I drank two cups today.

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u/lordmycal 3h ago

Holy shit dude. There have been people that died drinking the Panera Charged Lemonade by itself. Taking lots of caffeine is bad your adrenal system. If your adrenals give out, anything that creates stress can literally kill you -- it could be something like getting a cold, working out, etc.

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u/diomedesdescartes 4h ago

Tbf between coffee being 100 and energy drinks existing and being popular, a typical caffeinated beverage can be anywhere from 50-200 mg.

Course this is still WAYYY beyond that.

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u/JohnLovesGaming 4h ago edited 3h ago

£400k is definitely not enough for two students nearly dying. Their lives being worth £200k a piece is crazy, this should’ve been a multimillion euro fine right here.

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u/vintagerust 3h ago

Even though they lived, what's the point of the 400k, it didn't go to the students. Why should the government or court system get 400k because a university fucked up? I could see giving it to the people who suffered.

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u/LukaCola 2h ago

Why should the government or court system get 400k because a university fucked up?

IDK UK law exactly but the thinking with punitive damages in the US is partially to hurt the offenders enough that people don't try to "cut corners" because it'll actually cost them more in the end.

That's kind of the idea, at least, in practice--most people think they'll be the ones who don't fuck up. And they're right, mostly, until they're not.

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u/vintagerust 1h ago

Yeah I could see discouraging them with fines, but perhaps the fines should go to those who were damaged.

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u/skinlo 2h ago

This isn't America.

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u/2punornot2pun 4h ago

Reminds me of the infant death because the nurse didn't realize that mugrams were a thing and used milligrams.

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u/grumci 2h ago

you mean µg (mcg)?

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u/timshel42 4h ago

was it in solution or something? because .3 and 30g look way different. one is a giant pile of powder while the other is what looks like it could fit in a gel cap.

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u/usps_made_me_insane 4h ago

Yeah.... In my drug days I knew what ballpark 100mg looks like and 30 grams would be a large pile of powder.

I am shocked no one in this study said "hold up, this amount of caffeine will kill an elephant."

Just insane. 

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u/UseTheShadowsThen 4h ago

“Subject described how they could hear colour before vibrating through the floor.”

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u/Klin24 4h ago

Michael Bolton makes mistakes on mundane details like that as well.

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u/LofderZotheid 4h ago

My only question: did the fine go to the government or to the victims?

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u/SAugsburger 3h ago

IDK how lasting the impact of the OD, but feel even 200K paid to the victims might be a bit little for realistically killing you.

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u/Happy_Brilliant7827 4h ago

I had a energy drinks yesterday that rattled me mentally and had 200mg.. This would be what, pounding 15 of them?

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u/Taminoux 4h ago

More like 150 of them.

200mg is 0.2g while 30g is 30 000mg.

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u/waylandsmith 2h ago

Please keep working on your arithmetic before giving yourself medication!

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u/Mighty_McBosh 4h ago edited 1h ago

I occasionally have energy drinks with 300mg (0.3g, same as in the study) of caffeine in them. When I say occasionally, I mean I use it as a replacement for Adderall a couple times a day when I can't get my meds refilled.

I cannot imagine pounding any more than 2 or 3 of those back to back, let alone 100.

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u/killmagatsgousa 4h ago

A decimal point in the wrong place; I always fuck up some mundane detail too 

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u/Victinizz 4h ago

If I ever get mega dosed on caffeine please sedate me

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u/Medium-Dependent-328 3h ago

Could be an even worse idea. Taking a stimulant and a depressant at the same time absolutely wrecks your heart

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u/naynaeve 3h ago

And there are people out there saying math isn’t important to learn.

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u/Ok-Indication202 4h ago

Forbidden pre workout

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u/die-jarjar-die 4h ago

That's hardly a mundane detail, Michael!

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u/Jaijoles 4h ago

Holy shit. I’d have been dead from that. I can feel it after 2 energy drinks. I think my heart would actually explode from 30g.

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u/hackingdreams 4h ago

I can't even imagine taking thirty grams of caffeine thinking it was 300 milligrams. That's like taking 30 tylenol thinking you're taking one. Even with a reduced amount of filler... what the fuck.

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u/lynivvinyl 4h ago

I had earned a free drink at Starbucks and since my friend was working I went nuts. He put about 2 in of half and half in the bottom of a Trenta cup and filled the rest with espresso. I then proceeded to find a comfortable chair and get completely engrossed in wise man's fear by Patrick Rothfuss. A few hours of reading and sipping later I was out of espresso and really thirsty and I really had to pee. I stood up and immediately fell right back down into the chair. I was insanely dizzy completely nauseous really really thirsty and I had to pee the worst I've ever had to pee at that point in my life. I can't believe I didn't die. I did not drink all that espresso on purpose it's just the drink that was there. I do not suggest it to anyone.

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u/EquivalentSpeaker545 3h ago

The first time I bought instant coffee to stay up late writing an essay, I didn’t read the directions (I had also unknowingly bought instant espresso), and so I just chucked a few tablespoons in assuming it was like the ratio for ground coffee—kinda like those reusable K-cups. Every cup was more like 5 cups worth of caffeine. After 4 cups I started uncontrollably vomiting. Felt like my heart was beating out of my chest. Point being: damn 30g of caffeine probs sucked bad

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u/kingmea 2h ago

That’s two decimals boss